Is the Airgraver the best to buy?

[shadowran]

I have seen other engravers but are they worth wasting my money or is the Airgraver the way to go?

Some of the other brands are quite a bit cheaper too.

Also I asked this before but if I already have a Microscope and Air Compressor (for my airbrush) what else would I need to start, I know the enraver but what else?

sorry for all the questions but I keep making the wrong diccisions.

jim

[SpiderCurt]

Hi Jim

Since I am, for the present, restricted to push engraving, I usually defer to more knowledgeable members of the forum for this type of question. I remember having seen a post with similar questions. Here is the link:
What Should I Get?

I suppose I am still deferring to the more knowledgeable members

[airamp]

Hi Shadowran,


Well I was in the same boat.

So I got a vise (ball vise) on ebay and registered and down loaded Steves method of sharpening gravers.

I do have some push gravers but I though it would be good to learn how the masters sharpen and try to do that first.

Steve has a great sharpening system that is quick and easy and that is a good and easy way to have sharp gravers. You have to keep them sharp.


That makes a big difference regardless or the tool.

Check out Steves Carbalt and M42 graver blanks. They have to sharpened much less than HSS and when learning you can really cut up some metal without having to resharpen much. (I am developing a nice scrap pile).


I searched this site for suggestions and learned quite a bit.


Looking at all the tools from various makers it was evident that most that bought power engraving tools wished they had seen the airgraver first so many were selling them to buy a airgraver.

I also want to buy the best tool the first time and not have regrets. So I saved then it was a choice for a Artisin or a classic foot pedel. I did get the classic and it is really a great tool. I am also just starting so from what I know and using the classic i will most likely never outgrow this tool. It is so advanced, compact and powerful it for me was the best out there.

Don't get me wrong all the power tools work well and are made to do the job my choice was to buy it once and know it is the best for just about any engraving I will ever do. I also know that it is more tool for my skill level but learnig is more fun with the top quality little jewel. A Few lessons are also helping... but I have a very long way to go.

If you want to save some money buy a new vise that just came on the market by Grizzly here is the link and a lazy susan. A few machine parallels and some wood and hot glue and you have a very stable workholding device for not much money.

Here are the links.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Prec...ing-Vise/H7576

and

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=008

Also Here is a site for Die sinking (engravers) chisel's ON page 4.

Cheap high end engraving chisels to go with the self centering vise and lazy susan. You will not get rid of these even if you get a power tool.

Here is the link.

http://www.falcontool.com/Falcon_Section10.pdf

A hammer would be good also (1" face).

This will save you a few hundred to put twards a airgraver.

I got these since I am also learning Hammer and chisel as basics and a heavy vise is better than a ball vise for learning. (balls tend to roll when they are hit with a hammer and chisel

It weighs more than a ball vise and works well with the lazy susan and when you get it, it will work well with your airgraver.

Well Ill let some other's give you more information.

Check out the thread on "inexpensive way to start" and many other threads on this great site.

Most Important is to try to get some lessons... Anywhere. This is the quickest way to start out right. I know since I just started and now some of my scrap pile isn't looking so bad.

Good luck and welcome.

AirAmp



Yes you can buy used

[htandb]

Hi Jim,

Here's my short take on the value of the airgraver....on the I own both the GRS Gravermiester and the Lindsay Artisan (foot control):

I'm currently deployed overseas with the military, my Lindsay system came with me, the GRS stayed home.

In my opinion Lindsay system is the better of the two. It cuts smoother lines, has better control with the foot pedal and is a much smoother (and quieter) system.

I still use my Gravermiester for heavier impact work, it's a brute at large background removal (particularly in steel), but for detail and day to day engraving I much prefer the Lindsay. I plan on upgrading to the palm control in the future. Bang for the buck, it's a great system - in the end you get what you pay for. Steve has created a remarkable tool, and he is a very helpful guy.

TOOLS:

Number one on my list is a good engravers ball, I would be lost without mine, regardless of the cutting tool I was using.

Other than that, I'm sure there are others that can advise you on additional tools.

I need to run for the night. Hope this was helpful, good luck with the engraving!

Cheers!

Ryan :yesnod:

[JohnR]

Greetings Jim from up here in Modesto, CA. I'm also new to engraving and searched the be-jabbers out of the web trying to absorb whatever info I could get. My concern was to get the right tool the first time around and I believe I made the best choice. Yes it is alittle more expensive put your getting the most advanced top of the line engraver which everyone would love to own. If you do the math you'll find out that there's only a couple hundred dollars difference for a new engraver (if that).

I should be getting my new classic w/foot control, sharpener fixture & regulator next week (if my check don't bounce, he-he) just fooling Steve.

Ways I'll save money on unil I get better:
Vise & lazy susan project
use table stones for sharpening engravers
use head magnifiers
use simple lighting techneques
try not to break gravers by practicing on soft metals

[Ray Cover]

I would disagree with the expense issue.

If you compare apples to apples their isn't but about $100 difference in the prices. With Steve's being the least expensive I all but one case.

Lets look at both companies base models
The GRS Gravermate SC (The system 3 is a stone setting tool not an engraivng tool)
$895
Add one handpiece $225
Add collets for the handpiece $46
Total $1,166

The Lindsay Artisan with regulator $744
In the basic units the Lindsay is much cheaper

If you take the grs standard which is the gravermach right now. that set up is $1,095 for the machine
$225 for the average handpiece we will only add one this time
$46 package of 10 QC holders for handpiece to hold gravers

$1,366 total


Compare that to the Lindsay standard set up which is the foot pedal classic with regulators.
$1,244

Now if your going to compare apples and apples Steve's system is actually about $100 cheaper. To get the power range that the Lindsay classic has on its own one must have more than one handpiece in the GRS system.

Now to compare the Palm control to the graver mach is not a fair comparison because then you are comparing apples and oranges.

At that point you must add more goodies on the gravermach like tha airtach and attachments
THe gravermach is already at $1366
Add the airtach $389
Add at least one modification unit $59-$99 depending on handpiece modified

Now the GRS system is at a minimum of $1,815

The Lindsay classic with palm control $2,690

So here the Lindsay is $875 more. However, look at the two set ups. To have a palm unit from Glendo your looking at two boxes taking up space on the bench. Lots of spaghetti in cords and air hoses to try and route and manage. Plus you still need to add more handpieces to get the same power range. Even adding one more handpiece with a conversion for the AIRTACH is going to be $350+ THE DIFFERENCE IS GETTING SMALLER.

Anyone who has ever honestly used both side by side with tell you the difference in performance is not even a comparison. The Airtach will get he job done but it is not nearly as confortable responsive or intuitive as the Lindsay Palm control.

All things considered the Lindsay set up is not more expensive.

[JohnR]

I stand corrected. Thanks for breaking it down Ray. I knew I made the right choice.

Hope this helps Jim...............JohnR

[Ray Cover]

The thing is most people think that Steve's equipment is SO much more expensive because the classic with a palm control itself is expensive.

But when you add up all the accessories needed to complete the other system Steve's standard and basic units are actually cheaper.

Ray

[WVEngraver]

Yep ... that's called the "tool treadmill" Ray.

I've been trying to get off of it ever since I realized I was on it.

[Tim Wells]

Ray,
I appreciate you taking the time out of becoming a millionair knife engraver to break that down for all to see. :whoo: Well written!

I've written that down a few times for folks that come by the shop to get introduced to engraving equipment of various types. Everyone that has been by here to try my old gravermax and the three Lindsay tools sitting on my bench with absolutely no prodding from me has went home and ordered a classic. One guy got a classic and then a Palm Control not long after. I've always been strictly unbiased in letting them "play" and let them come to their own conclusions.

When a tool works like it should no matter who makes it, it'll sell itself with no help needed from me. One of the things that aggrevated me so much about the Gravermax is that they don't tell you that you have to have all these other handpieces for different things; you have to know to ask, same with the gravermeister I had. I updated the RPM to the modern verson and had to buy new handpieces as the old ones wouldn't work. They didn't tell me that or I wouldn't have bothered and put it on eBay as is, or was I should say.

And any given handpiece, say a 901 won't operate in the entire stroke per minute range or varying air pressures; I always had to fool with it to dial it in and then do it all over again when I changed handpieces which didn't take long to frustrate me enough to relegate it to stippling duty.

When I got that Artisan handpiece, I sold the Gravermax to help pay for the Palm conversion to my Classic and I use it for everything but stippling which the Artisan now does among other things.

[shadowran]

thanks guys, so the palm graver is the best to start with?

what I understand is I need a ball vise, palm engraver and some sort of sharpener to start engraving?

jim