Tool Decission Dilema (Contest)

[DGrub]

Hello everyone!! I am new to the engraving world and am having a hard time deciding what equipment to go with. Last spring I took a engraving class with "the competitors" just to see if I could actually do this before I invested a lump of money in equipment that I may not be able to use. I was surprised at how well I could cut, seeing as how I had never used a pnuematic tool before. The part I didn't like was the fact that you had to buy multiple pieces of equipment to "do it all", so I did not purchase any tools from them. I have been looking at Steve's handpieces and had decided that the Classic would be my choice- one handpiece with the capabilities to "do it all." Then Steve came out with the Artisian Handpiece! I guess what caught my attention is the price. I understand that it does not have the stroke adjustment on the handpiece so the stroke adjustment is done by air pressure from the compressor or changing pistons. Just how adjustable is this? Is this a tool that I will "outgrow" so to speak in a couple years and wish that I had gone with a Classic handpiece? Or a Palm control? I would be able to save up for an Artisian a bit sooner than the others and be able to start cutting now vs. saving for awhile and getting a Classic. Are these tools really as superior to everything else as everyone says? I just don't want to have to keep purchasing more and more equipment as my abilities improve. My goal is to engrave full time. I need to make a decission before I drive my wife insane with all of my drawing and doodling.....figured if I start cutting, maybe I would get it out of my system......or is that something that I will be plagued with from here on out? Any suggestions, comments or advise would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Dan Grubaugh

[Tom McArdle]

Hi Dan, and welcome!

There is no one tool that can do EVERYTHING. However, the classic comes mighty close, for most purposes.

I first started the pneumatic phase of my career with one of Steve's early tools. It has a stroke adjustment, but it is inside the tool. You had to take the graver out, loosen a set screw, and then adjust the stroke length. For most work, I just left it alone. Even now, using a classic, I seldom adjust the stroke length, but it is much more convenient. To get the lightest or heaviest cuts though, the stroke adjustment really is necessary.

If price is truly an issue, and at some point, it is, the Artisan will likely serve you well for a lifetime of use. If you get to the point that you could control the lightest settings on the classic, you could probably hand push with the Artisan, and get similar results. If you find the top end not heavy enough, you can usually get the depth and width of cut with multiple passes of the artisan and the heavy piston.

The proof of my point? Look at some high end work done with hammer and chisel and by hand pushing. The Artisan will get you close, and the rest you will have to figure out. It can be done.The Classic will get you the whole way, assuming you keep after it. For the long haul.

If saving for the Classic will delay your tool purchase by a year or more, I would get the Artisan, and get going. If you could save the difference in 6 months or so, I would wait and get the Classic, and keep drawing in the meantime, and sharpen some tools and try some hand pushing while you are waiting.

BTW, Yes, Steve's tools are the best, and worth every penny you spend. They will not make you a great engraver though. You will have to find that in your own heart.

All the best,

Tom

[Brian]

Hi Dan,

My best advice for anyone in your position is simple. Get started at whatever level you can afford. Push gravers and hammer and chisel, however, seem to be becoming less and less popular every year. I think that may be because they require more out of you to get results that make you happy. Making you happy makes you WANT to continue to learn...

If you start with a serviceable pneumatic tool at the level of the Artisan, learn to use it well, learn a bit about marketing and business practices, you can always move up to the next level. Make your money back and then some. By the time you do that, you will know exactly what you need from personal experience. You won't have risked much... if you haven't noticed, the Lindsay tools rarely if ever show up on EBay or similar venues. They get snapped up as soon as they are offered.

By the way - it has been my experience that your engraving skills are only about 25% of the normal small engraving enterprise. Your business and marketing skills are far more important, and usually comprise the other 75%.

You can be one of the top ten best skilled engravers in the world and still starve to death. You have to have the business skills!

And then there's the discipline it takes to put it all together so it works smoothly... whole 'nother book could be written here. No time to do it tonight.

Don't waste time. Get an Artisan. Get started. Put in the necessary hours. Find out if hand engraving is truly something you want to do for a living. If not, get back on here and post that you want to find your tool a new home...

Brian P. Marshall
Stockton Jewelry Arts School
Stockton, CA USA
209-477-0550
instructor@jewelryartschool.com
jewelryartschool@aol.com

P.S. Where on the planet are you? There may be someone close enough to you to try out some of your options. I have at least one of every engraving tool ever offered for sale - during 37 years at the bench. Anyone in my area is welcome to stop by and test drive 'em. Might wanna call first... I seem to be spending the majority of my time at Lowes or Home Depot these days. 50 year old houses need lots of maintenance and never ending "upgrades". (Just got indoor plumbing and electricity to work)

[DGrub]

Hello Tom and Brian, and thanks for your advise. I have been trying to push and hammer engrave.......I can make cuts but not to my expectations yet. Makes me feel as if I am going "backwards" after I seen what I could do with pnuematic tools. I started about eight years ago using a high-speed rotary....which works very well on glass, wood and egg shells, but does not produce the results I like in metal. I understand that one tool can not do everything, and a lot has to do with my own ability and skills. I just don't want to have to purchase 3 or 4 handpeices as the "competitors" recomend in order to accomplish things. I would like one versital tool of good quality that I do not have to fix or update regularly, and will allow me to advance as my skills do. Maybe my expectations are a bit much? Thanks again for you advice!!

Dan Grubaugh

[KurtB]

Dan, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. Don't hinder yourself by trying to do it too cheaply. Engraving is hard enough even with the very best of tools. Let's face it, if it were easy, everyone would be doing it and there'd be little demand for the finished work. But it IS difficult. And that's what makes it desireable. I've been "into" it for about 4 months now. Sometimes I feel like I'm going nowhere, and then I look at earlier work and realize that I'm the tortoise making slow and steady progress.

another analogy: It's very much like a musical instrument. You could pick up a saxophone and make BRRAAMMPHH noises, but to make beautiful music requires years of dedicated practice.

You can find a lot of used GRS equipment on eBay. People buy the tools, get discouraged, and bail out with a lighter wallet. Like these guys mentioned, though, you won't find many of Steve's tools out there on the used market.

Anyway, I've already learned that it is going to take a long time to get proficient, and that's OK. It's a journey, not a destination, and I'm into it for the long haul. This is something that will give me satisfaction when I'm well into my "senior" years, and I'm very hopeful that I will leave behind objects of beauty that will be around for centuries.

I get disgusted with myself and discouraged sometimes, and put the tools down, but within a day, sometimes within hours, my sour mood evaporates and I pick up my Palmcontrol (or my pencil) once more. So realize that it's a long process, and will require a serious desire to learn. You've got to want it, bad.

Suggestion: Start with a sketch book. Date each page as you execute practice drawings. Same thing with practice plates. You will be able to look back and see progress. It might be slow, but it'll be there.

[Tom McArdle]

hello again Dan. Reading Brian's post, i revise my opinion. get started with something ASAP, preferably the Artisan.

I sometimes think that the hardcore approach might be best, ie. if you can stick with hammer and chisel for a year or two, you ARE committed to the Art! However, as Brian pointed out, discouragement can kill your interest early. As a kid, I lost interest in the piano because I didn't like all the scales, and the sound of the songs I did play. The classical approach works for some, but not all. To help my 13 year old learn guitar, we started with a book of simple songs he could learn. The ability to make music asap is very important. Will he stick with it? Who knows. he has enjoyed it though.

If you want to e-mail some pics of your hammer and chisel work, I would be happy to give you some pointers.

Take care,

Tom

ps It took me almost 2 full years to transition fully to the airgraver, after engraving by hammer and chisel for several years before that. The same son I mentioned above doesn't like the foot pedal of the airgraver, and prefers trying to hand push, or use the hammer and chisel. It just depends. maybe the palmcontrol would suit him. Right now though, it is out of reach. he will learn with what we have, or he will do something else. The tools will not ultimately hold you back, but they can slow you down for a while.

[Roger Henrichs]

Dan,
I've owned a Classic foot controlled AirGraver for about 3 years. Three weeks ago I got a Artisan to replace my Gravermeister which I was using for some of my non-rectangular gravers. Testing the Artisan and Classic side by side I have found that Artisan will do almost anything the Classic will do. Steve sent me some shim washers for stroke length adjustment. Adjustment can be made with air pressure control valve.

I find myself using the Artisan about 50% of the time. True the Classic has all the bells and whistles but Artisan is a very fine tool.

Roger Henrichs

[DGrub]

Hi Roger, That is some good info! One thing that I was wondering is, are the shimm washers used to "fill space" to create a lighter stroke/shorter stroke? I guess I would have to see a diagram or be able to take one apart to understand how these things are put together and work. Thanks for the info!

Dan

[DGrub]

Hi Tom, good to hear from you again. I to think getting going now would be better than waiting a year. And yes, it does get frustrating trying to push and hammer engrave. I have a heck of a time with consistant tool control with both hammering and pushing. I keep trying though.....someday it will all come together....I hope. Thanks again for the advice!

Dan

[Roger Henrichs]

Dan,
The shims are used to lengthen the stroke to add power and slows the strokes per min. down. The Artisan and Classic have a removable sleeve and piston. The shims are located at the base of the sleeve.To add shims, pull off the rubber handle, drop the piston out and pull the sleeve, add the shims and put it back together. Not to difficult to do. I had the shims in for testing and have taken them out.

I'm a old convert from chase hammer and chisel and push gravers. If you have never used air assist you will be suprised at how the AirGraver virtually eliminates slips and fatigue.

Roger

[DGrub]

Hi Roger, thanks for explaining the purpose of the shimms to me. I understand about the slips when push engraving!!! I think that when it comes to push engraving, at least for me, I make more slips than good cuts! Thanks again!

Dan

[Tom McArdle]

you will have to be careful when using an air tool that you let the tool do the work. I had a lot of slips when first using an air tool becasue i was forcing the tool along, instead of letting it do the work.

Since learning the airgravers, my hand pushing is better too. I let the graver do the work, with much less pressure than I used to. A light clean cut can be made deeper. A heavy ragged cut with a slip doesn't help anyone!

Sharp tools and depth control (angle of attack) will make for good engraving, no matter how the force is applied to the tool.

Tom

[KurtB]

I started years ago with a Brownell's basic engraving kit. It had a few gravers, a chasing hammer, Niel Hartliep's book (it's good) and I also bought Meeks. I spent months struggling with the hammer just to make clean cuts, let alone decent scrollwork. In retrospect, my sharpening was incorrect, and that might have contributed to my frustration.

I was making flintlocks at the time, and by gum I was going to do my own engraving. One of my toe plates from long, long ago with hammer and chisel:



I didn't "hold back" trying to replicate a country gunsmith effort from 1790... this was the best I could do! I got frustrated and put the tools away. Then I found this web site, and my interest was rekindled 1000% So I can say with some honesty that I did work with a hammer, and that hammer is still a proud part of my tool set.