first test plates

[PhilJordan]

I've just started engraving (5 days ago). I'm a silversmith from London, UK and have been interested in engraving for a while but haven't had the time to try it until now. My aim is to engraved on silver, so everything is going to be push engraved. I made myself aVery jomemade turntable out of an old bmx wheel bolted to my bench and then a solid piece of wood held on top with zip ties. It runs really nicely even though the stock loose ball bearings are pretty cheap. The work is then held on with a hot glue gun. It's not exactly state of the art, but money is an issue so I'd rather spend the money on decent steel for the graver than on a vice!

Here are the few plates that I've got started on by reading around on the internet and from snippets of jewellery and silversmithing books - I've got a couple of engraving books on order, but the one I really want is Meek and It's not available over here for less than about £60, which I just don't have.

[SVD]

Pretty darn good on those concentric circles!
Those are a good practice / test item and therefore a good stress test of your setup.

Keep up the work and keep us informed.

Try looking on eBay for the Meeks book

[PhilJordan]

I've been looking through books and seeing as the ones I have are about engraving script, even though I had not planned to, I have started to learn script rather than just decorative engraving. The theory is that I will learn the necessaries involved in creating good quality script and can then transfer the skills to more decorative engraving. I actually find script to be really enjoyable and I have a couple of good books teaching me. Anyway, here's what I did yesterday afternoon/evening.

[SEngraver]

Originally Posted by PhilJordan

I've been looking through books and seeing as the ones I have are about engraving script, even though I had not planned to, I have started to learn script rather than just decorative engraving. The theory is that I will learn the necessaries involved in creating good quality script and can then transfer the skills to more decorative engraving. I actually find script to be really enjoyable and I have a couple of good books teaching me. Anyway, here's what I did yesterday afternoon/evening.

Hi,

Real nice Phil,keep it up

SE

[PhilJordan]

Thanks SE, I'll keep the progress reports coming. I really am enjoying engraving more than I thought I would!

[SEngraver]

HI,

Burnish the graver slips. A bit more graver control will reduce that.
SE

[PhilJordan]

Do you mean burnish the slips in order to try to 'hide the mistakes'? I didn't do very well this morning on my first few letters and kept slipping. I figure I'll improve as I go and expect to slip whilst still learning, although I am trying hard not to.

[Kevin]

Phil, your script looks very good considering this is your first week at it, and hand pushing. Seems you graver geometry is good. Guessing you are not using templates or a sharpening fixture since you are on a low budget. If so, you are doing very very well.

I agree with you, that if you can do script well, the rest won't be to hard to learn. I enjoy script.

Try to make your wide cuts wider, and your hairlines as thin as possible. This is what gives script its beauty.
Also, in classic engravers script, the lower case letters are 1/3 the height of the Capitals. And there is more slant. About 52 degrees. But these rules can be broken and still have good looking script.

Don't go overboard on books for lettering if money is an issue. One good one is all you need. But do buy Meeks book if you can.

Remember, you can not make fine hairlines unless the point of your graver is very sharp. Took me awhile to figure that out even though it is pretty basic.
Kevin Scott

[PhilJordan]

Thanks Kevin,

Yes, I'm sharpening by hand/eye as I can't afford a decent sharpening guide. Thanks for the advice re. script, I'll take those points and try to improve. I have only bought one book, which was only £6 delivered, and the other one was a free pdf download thanks to a website called Ganoksin, which looks to be a good all round jewellery info website.

[PhilJordan]

Amy suggestions? I just kept slipping this evening.

[Kevin]

Phil, If you are slipping on a type of cut that you were not slipping on before, it could be when you resharpen the graver, you changed the geometry a bit. Does not take much when you are hand sharpening without templates or fixtures. Has been one of my problems.

Or, assuming you hold the graver in your right hand, you are slipping on the line of beauty when turning the work counterclockwise after turning the work clockwise. This maneuver is prone to slipping when using push power, even though some books teach to do the line of beauty this way.

Another way to do it, is to start at the bottom, and when getting 3/4 to the top when the line goes to a hairline, stop. Then turn work upside down, and start with a hairline, and as it meets the first cut widen the cut to meet it. That is the way most books teach it. Most books say to only turn the work clockwise, never clockwise, when doing push power.

On certain cuts and metal I am prone to slip. On these cuts and metal, I tighten my grip with my fingers on the graver and go slow.

But in general, don't use a death grip on the graver. Especially on the last two fingers on the graver handle.
Hope this helps. Kevin Scott

[chujybear]

Can keep your hands connected. Though it does put your hand it harms way it greTly increases control. Especially the added incentive that if you slip gouged yourself.

[SEngraver]

Originally Posted by PhilJordan

Amy suggestions? I just kept slipping this evening.

Hi Phil,

Keep the graver very sharp,Sometimes tiredness of the hand can also be the culprit.Take 10 rest the hand and try again.


SE

[PhilJordan]

After this plate I decided to stop for the day and I'll come back to it fresh after a nights sleep. I'll sharpen my graver and try to make sure I'm getting it as close to how it was yesterday morning when all was well. I expect I'm pushing myself to quickly as I'm spending 4-6 hours per day learning/practicing engraving.

[PhilJordan]

I left the engraving practice for a little while and had a rest. When I can back to it this morning I resharpened my graver from scratch to make sure I've got it right and very annoyingly I'm still slipping a lot. Not sure what I'm doing differently that's making me slip so much.

My sharpened graver

[SEngraver]

Hi Phil,

The heels or backs as we call them here ,are too big .
I would reduce it to a quarter of the size that is on those pictures if I was you and put them at approx. 7 - 10 degrees ,and they should be the same in width on both side of the graver.

Is that a V 90 graver ?

SE

[PhilJordan]

Thanks for replying on both threads, SE. Sorry for being impatient and writing a specific 'slipping' thread through my frustration!

[SEngraver]

Its okay,no probs,Phil

SE

[PhilJordan]

It feels good to be cutting again. Here's this evenings short progress. Still slipping a little, but only through lack of concentration.

[SEngraver]

Originally Posted by PhilJordan

It feels good to be cutting again. Here's this evenings short progress. Still slipping a little, but only through lack of concentration.

Hi,

Getting better.

SE

[PhilJordan]

Just a little update. I haven't had much time this weekend, but managed a few more letters.

[PhilJordan]

I have finally finished the alphabet, well capitals at least!



Still slipping at times, but getting the hang of things.

[SEngraver]

Hi Phil,

The lettering is great.

It seems that the ' slips ' are mostly where the cuts are wider ?

SE

[PhilJordan]

Yes. Normally it's as I'm going from the wider part of the cut and easing back down to the hairline. I find that I'm cutting really quite deep when trying to shade the widest parts of the letters, which means that I'm having to use a lot of force and that in turn means that I'm more likely to slip when I'm easing the force.

[PhilJordan]

I've now finished the lower case alphabet also. Here it is.



It seems like my updates are becoming less interesting all the time, but I said I'd put them up so here they are!
I've just started having a play with an aluminium plate and that really is quite different from copper. Lots of slips to begin with!

[Daniel Houwer]

Your doing great sir.
I would stick to copper for the first time at least though. And sand the plate before you start engraving.
Aluminium can really be hard on your graver tip as AlOxide is as hard as carborundum and all alloys are different.
In short, Al, wouldnt be my favorite to engrave by pushengraving.
And although the replys might stop coming as much as in the start, this is a very good thread for a lot of people that are in your shoes, so please keep it up

[SEngraver]

HI Phil,

I look forward to your updates.As the saying " looking is learning ",please do not think that as you keep posting your work gets less interesting , that is not the case in my opinion.
I learn too from you work.

Thank you for sharing your work with us and keep posting

SE

[joseph engraver]

This is a great post, I admire your determination,don't get discouraged.

[Roger Bleile]

Phil,

Are you using an engraver's block (vise)? I have not seen evidence of one in your pictures. If you are trying to engrave that large plate while sliding it around on a bench, that is half your problem. If you don't have a block and can't afford to buy one try this:

Instead of cutting your letters on a large sheet of copper, cut the copper sheet into small sections about 2 inches long and 2 inchs wide then hot glue the copper to a small block of wood that you can get your left hand around. That way you can manipulate the block with your left hand while pushing the graver with the right arm.

Cheers,

Roger

[PhilJordan]

Thanks for the advice Roger. I started by gluing a piece of copper to a large piece of wood that didn't move too much due to it's weight, but it did still slide around a bit and also I couldn't control it properly. I therefore decided to make a turntable (you are right, I can't afford a vise) which would at least hold in place properly and allow me to turn the work. It's an old bmx wheel bolted to my bench with a sheet of wood attached to the wheel itself.







Having the rotation is fantastic and whilst I'm still practising on flat plates it is fit for purpose. The only problem I'm having at the moment is that the wood on top is too big, which makes me bend over it too much (hurting my back) and puts me too far away from the work as it rotates. I'm going to either cut the wood down, or replace it soon but I don't have much equipment with me at the moment. I operate on a very 'needs must' basis.

[SEngraver]

HI Phil,

You can put smaller 'tops' on these ,It my help ;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cake-Decor...item20b931f2fc

Or a lazy Susan bearing ;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lazy-Susan...item45fb69ba40

The tops can be 12 " approx.

SE

[PhilJordan]

As I had mentioned before, my turntable was too big and getting a little annoying. I have replaced it with the "wheel turntable mark II"! Unfortunately I smashed the screen on my phone today and that is my only camera, so no more pictures from me for a while. The new turntable is quite similar to the old one but rather than use a whole wheel I've just used the hub with the axle still in it. I bolted the axle to the bench and then used the hot melt glue gun to attach a piece of wood (this time only about 8" round). Job done!

[PhilJordan]

SE was very kind and has sharpened me a few gravers to get started with so that I know how a properly sharpened graver should feel. Needless to say, they feel great! With my new found confidence I fancied trying something a little more artistic than just letters so I've started on Steve Lindsay's practice plate - see original thread - I've only done the outline so far, with a V116. Here it is:



I'm going to give the shading a go soon.

[SEngraver]

HI Phil,

Great going hope to see the shading.That really made my day !!
Keep up the good work, and thanks for sharing it with us

SE

ps...I am glad I got an opportunity to lend a hand.

[PhilJordan]

I've now added the shading and attempted to take out some of the background by leaning my graver over as far as it will go. I'll probably take the background out properly with my pendant motor when I go into the workshop.



It's a little scrappy, but with a bit more practice I'll get the hang of it.

[Jahn Baker]

Phil, Practice, practice, practice! Slips are generally the result of either; a dull or improperly sharpened graver, or the wrong angle between the graver and the metal. The more you practice, the better it will get. Stay with it and stay in touch.

[SEngraver]

Phil,

Using shorter strokes will help.
SE

[hoochiepapa]

Originally Posted by SEngraver

HI Phil,

You can put smaller 'tops' on these ,It my help ;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cake-Decor...item20b931f2fc

Or a lazy Susan bearing ;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lazy-Susan...item45fb69ba40

The tops can be 12 " approx.

SE

The second one you have listed is a duplicate of one I bought from Woodcraft, and it has a spot in it that refuses to turn. Also you have to be careful with any lazy susan, that it is stable. I got one from my mom she used on the dining table, and it wobbles real bad. Just my two cents.

[PhilJordan]

Thanks for the comments, hoochiepapa. I would always make my own turntable when it's essentially just two plates with some bearing in between. My smaller version of the original is working really nicely now.

[SEngraver]

Originally Posted by hoochiepapa

The second one you have listed is a duplicate of one I bought from Woodcraft, and it has a spot in it that refuses to turn. Also you have to be careful with any lazy susan, that it is stable. I got one from my mom she used on the dining table, and it wobbles real bad. Just my two cents.

Hi hoochiepapa,

Thank you for your input.
I have used the first one for some years and they are okay,serves the purpose,and still going fine.I have two in use at the moment.

I will have to get a proper turntable eventually,

The second one is a lazy susan bearing only that one will have to use to make a turntable to suit their work.

But you have a first hand experience of having used it I believe.
One can also return them if they don't work.

SE