Some silver sculpting

[DaveP]

Hi,
I cast and then chiseled this sideplate for an 18th century English sporting gun. It is inspired by a firearm made by James Freeman during the second quarter of the 18th century. Hope you enjoy it.

dave

[SEngraver]

Hi ,

Looks very nice Dave.

SE

[myazel]

Thats wonderful! Do you have any pics you could post of the raw casting so we could see where you started?

[JP Anderson]

You can add my admiration.

John

[ronald scott]

Great side plate!!! I really appreciate the fact that you stayed within the style of time. Do you carve you master from wax?

Ron

[mtgraver]

I concur with the other fellows, very nice Dave. Did you cast for the thickness or to speed up the process?
Mark

[Ray Cover]

That is nice Dave.

[Vanknife]

Very nice Dave well done

Cheers

"VAN"

[DaveP]

Hi,
Thanks everyone for your interest and comments. It was a fun project that really challenged me.

MYazel and Mark,
I cast and then chiseled because that is what the 18th century silversmiths catering to the gun trade did. It was not to save time except perhaps that is why the old smiths cast silver before chiseling. I carved wax models from green carving wax and used the Delft clay casting system to make the rough pieces. I cast the sideplate in 3 pieces because it was too large for my small set up. I simply silver soldered the pieces together designing the joints so they were invisible. I then used die sinkers chisels to carve the large details and my Airgraver to do the fine stuff. I polished with stones, abrasive powders, and mineral oil. I posted some photos of the wax models and rough castings of a previous design so you can see where I started.

Thanks again everyone for your kind comments.

dave

[Jroettger]

Good looking piece. Your method reminds me of a film I saw in school called, "The Silversmith of Williamsburg." The guy used a similar technique on a large tea pot handle.

[myazel]

Thanks for the additional pictures of your process! Not being a silver smith is that a little tricky soldering that together since the material and solder would be melting at about the same temp?

[mtgraver]

Dave, Do I know you? Your process makes perfect sense and yes I'm familiar with it but I've had problems with inclusions when I cast. I think that problem is more with the size of the crucible vs. the size of the object. My first sculpted side plate I cut out of pretty thick bronze, kind of dumb now that I look back. Hard to cut, with many small piercings and not knowing what I was doing but that was 25 years ago. Hopefully I've learned a few things since then. Love the plate and those style of guns. We will get to see the finished piece won't we, .

Mike, the silver soldering temp is a bit below the base metal temp. and it also depends what grade of solder to use, hard being the best for blending in the joint. Many techniques to cover the trace of the joint can be applied but I think the toughest is using a technique using filings and borax, then you will have a puddle since the melting temp is the same.
Mark

[myazel]

Thanks for the tips Mark I always just think of silver solder being very close to silver in melting temp and think I would just end up with a puddle of shiny metal! I take it a very small flame here might be a good idea too? Do you guys cast this in a centrifuge to keep the voids to a minimum?

[DaveP]

Hi MYazel,
Great questions and thanks for your interest. I used a lower temperature silver solder that contains tin (I believe). It melts at about 475 degrees F so nowhere near the melting temperature of silver. I use flux of course and a small butane torch for the heat. The joints are so tight that I could probably use any solder of any color and it would not be visible except perhaps with high magnification. I do not use a centrifuge or vacuum to insert the molten metal. The Delft clay process is basically sand casting with clay and the metal is gravity fed. Hence, the reason why I cast smaller sections and soldered. There are a few tiny voids but then most of the original plates made in the 18th century also had voids. I can reuse the wax models to make more sideplates.

Mark, you do know me. I am an admirer of your work when you have posted it on the American longrifle forum.

dave

[mtgraver]

Mike, the trick to silver is to heat the whole piece so a big bushy flame is better than a small one. I have two different torches depending on what I'm working on. One is propane-air for big stuff, within reason, and the other is a small or medium sized oxy-acetylene I have set up on a Y valve. Yes the temp is close but not as close as the IT solder I used in a plique-a-jour class, the differential was about 50 degrees is I remember. The wires were anywhere from 11ga. to 24 ga. in one little vessel, pretty tricky work, .
As Dave said, it's a sand casting process using deft sand, you can find at Rio Grande. I don't have a centrifuge myself, wish I did for many things. Similar process to ramming up a trigger guard or butt plate just smaller and different sand, I think.
Mark

[Bert Edmonston]

Nice work! With sand casting, you are always going to get a very rough casting. It's just the nature of the beast.

For best results lost wax technique using either vacuum or centrifuge As a jeweler specializing in custom jewelry, I do alot of casting. Everything from small flasks containing a single ring to large trees of various pieces to small sculptures. I am using centrifuge exclusively and get great results.

The key to casting is consistency, patience, and accuracy. You've got to be very meticulous with measuring and mixing your investment. Lastly a nice slow burnout process is the way to go. If you try to go too fast you can easily cause problems with boiling your wax before it can evacuate the investment. This leads to the investment breaking away and causing problems.

[mtgraver]

Thanks Dave, but I don't think I've ever posted my work on the ALR site, can't seem to figure out how to do it. May have been some years ago when Mark was doing, don't know, but seemed the level of work I should, . You don't live in the northeast do you? You do go to the CLA show don't you?
Mark

[myazel]

Very interesting guys! Dave I always think of the lower temp solders(600 degrees or less) as soft solders but I might be wrong on terminology where as "silver" solder which I use for its strength is almost a braze melting well over a 1000 degrees. I have always wanted to try this and now I know I will. I used to do a lot of molds for investment casting and have been interested ever since my dad made a mold for a flintlock lock plate and the frame of a blackpowder pistol he made.
Mark I think I am set on the air/propane torch but need to acquire a small torch for my oxy/acc torch. So many neat things to try and figure out! I check Rio for supplies! Thanks guys!

[DaveP]

Hi MYazel,
The solder I use contains about 4-6% silver and the rest is mostly tin. It is the same stuff I use to solder barrel ribs and lugs and despite the lower temp it is very strong. However, it is certainly not as strong as silver brazing. However, the color match is fine, although the joints are really hard to detect anyway, and the sideplate does not need the strength of silver brazing. I have silver soldering paste that flows at 1300 degress F, about 400 degrees below the melting temp of the fine silver casting grain. That would work fine as well but uneeded in my case. With respect to casting, I use Delft clay because it is similar to the simple techniques used during the era I am emulating. I also don't have the space or need to use a centrifuge or investment casting. My work has a vintage feel.

Take care,

dave

[myazel]

It is the historic feel and look I like in your work and am trying to bring to mine! Thanks for the info I will be experimenting with it as the year goes along. Working on things for the Kalamazoo show right now so no fun just work.