Lindsay PalmControl and the GRS Airtact

[Tom White]

Hi, I hope this does not upset anyone on this forum, the following are only my opinions.

I have noticed that this has been avoided or not discussed on this forum so first I will say I do not want to start an argument but here is my comparison of the Lindsay PalmControl and the new GRS Airtact palm touch element. This is based on my recent use of both at the FEGA annual show in Reno.

First I would like to thank the organizers of this show the tables were close enough that the trips back and forth were not too tiring for a semi old guy that was real plus.

I actually tried the GRS unit first as there was a crowd at the Lindsay table. I was amazed to see they had even tried to imitate a palm control at all as it is a patented unit to Lindsay Engraving. I took a seat and gave the GRS unit a test drive. I placed the graver to the plate and started to push, I had a hard time finding the sweet spot or the place on the handle that actually made something happen, then I pushed a little harder and the unit jumped to a start and I mean jumped. After I got it under some control the cutting seemed to be OK. I did notice what I will call a control lag as there was a delay in my request for power and when the power was actually delivered, at this time I assumed it had something to do with all of the tubing running about, there seemed to be plenty of it on the table.

Next I went to the Lindsay Display to test drive a PalmControl, I own a foot control classic now, I took the tool in my hand and it felt as though it belonged there. I got the scope in focus and touched the graver to the plate to give it a try. The tool felt like an extension of my hand responding to my slightest touch. WOW what tool control, what a tool. I cut a scroll and some lettering that was already layed out on the plate. Every touch every command was instantly reflected in the tool operation it was nice.

I made the trip back to the GRS table with some questions on the control of the tool and was told I needed to tune the machines (plural) to my own liking or needs. I tried the tool again and tried to adjust to what I wanted with not too much luck. I made the trip back and forth a few more times liking the Lindsay more and more.

It was then that it dawned on me why the control was so different. All and I mean all of the control for the Lindsay is in the handle right there where the work is done one very short piece of tubing between the tool and the control.On the GRS palm unit there is a valve on the handle leading to the Airtact unit, which is in the place of the foot control, and the Airtact unit is connected to the gravermax which is then connected back to the handpiece. That is at least 3 different units all having to wait on the other to get this thing going and all can and need to be adjusted. Not to mention the amount of airlines and the amount of air, which no one at GRS seemed to know how much it needed in CFM, and the different handpieces.

With the Lindsay it is all in the palm of my hand all the power and control in one place and one compact powerful machine. I only wish I had all of the talent to make the best of it.

In conclusion it is my opinion after trying both that the Lindsay PalmControl is and will be my choice for these reasons.

:yesnod: 1. Overall feel and appearance
:yesnod: 2. Full range of power in 1 handpiece
:yesnod: 3. Fully self contained no control boxes needed
:yesnod: 4. Very portable (very important for shows)
:yesnod: 5. No table full of controllers all adjustments on the unit
:yesnod: 6. It just works better for me

If any of you are waiting on this GRS unit don't just get the best now and go with the Lindsay. I am sure you will be happier in the long run also I understand that the GRS units will not be available for 2 to 4 months. I also understand many of the GRS instructors, their own cream of the crop, have not even had the chance to test this, I wonder who did an engineer or an engraver????

Again I hope this does not start a problem here but we are supposed to share ideas and opinions in a constructive manner and that is my intent.

Tom White

[Ray Cover]

Well Tom,

I was going to keep my mouth shut on this matter or at least keep my conversation between Steve and myself. But since Tom opened the subject I will give my 2 cents.

I was very dissapointed to see this airtact come from GRS. There was a time when GRS seemed to be a progressive and creative company that was a leader in the engraving tool industry. I used their tools for years with success.

But this is not the progressive creative act of a company who is confident and in a leadership position in the industry. It is a desparate knee jerk reaction of of folks who are afraid they cannot keep up without copying the creative ideas of their competition. At least that is what it looks like from my perspective. GRS is no longer the leader. They have just become a follower.

I am not enough of an engineer or a lawyer to know for sure if they violated Steve's patent or not, but they have lost a ton of my respect. It makes me want to no longer buy anything from them.

To me this is no different than one artist copying another artist work rather than creating their own.

That puts me in a real delima. You see one of the tenants that my school is built on is... that I will have everyone's equipment here for students to try. The idea is it will give folks the chance to compare head to head the tools that are on the market so they can find what works best for them before taking the plunge.

Maybe I should go ahead and buy one so people can compare it to Steve's. If the performance gap is as wide as Tom states then my students deserve to see that for themselves.

I know this seems a little more harsh than most of you are used to seeing from me. It is my heartfelt feelings on the matter. You are welcome to disagree with me. If you do please do so with respect and within the guidelines of the forum rules.

Ray Cover

[Roger Henrichs]

For what it is worth I did the Tom White test in Reno. I am using a Airgraver Classic foot contol and occasionally my old Gravermeister. I had never tried Steve's palm control before Reno. I first had to compare the difference between the foot control and palm control Airgravers. For me there was little difference between palm control and foot control both systems having advantages over the other. Later I tried the other guys equipment. I agree with Toms analysis totally. From my perspective the other guys equipment is kind of a cobbled up system.

Roger Henrichs

[Tom McArdle]

The first issue to see resolved is whether there are patent infringements. That will become clear in time, no doubt. If there are patent issues, the moral choice seems clear. If not, then having such tools for students to try would not be an ethical issue at all.

My .02

Saving pennies...

Tom

[Tim C]

The sad part is the existance of the airtact system itself, it is clear that they are copying. It's good to hear they failed at it...

[jacques herbst]

two big boxes,two handpieces two air tubes and one power supply and it will still never be a PalmControl.steve you just lead the way

[austin]

The important difference between Lindsay's and Grs airgraver is the route of air.If you have a Lindsay airgraver,all of the air from you aircompressor will enter the graver.In Grs system,lot of air will be egested from control(foot or palm handle).

According this ,Lindsay's graver will more sensitive than Grs.

[JOHN COTHERN]

John here, I too was in Reno and went back and forth, and it made my choice of buying Steve's Palmcontroll even more sure:yesnod: I wouldn't even call it a competetion, for a serious engraver once they feel the difference, there will only be one choice. The Palmcontroll is a automatic Ferrari vs a old Chevy. GRS makes some great stuff, but Steve has this part of the engraving world locked up solid. Great tool Steve.

[Steve Ellsworth]

doesnt matter what kind of a control they put on their system
palm knee blow in a tube - whatever
the spring system they use cant keep up with the demand
inherant spring slop cant compete with a piston and can only go so fast
so what we have here is old technology with a new paint job
still a 47 ford

[SVD]

Haven't had a chance to play with one of Steve's beauties yet but I've fiddled with an AirTact for a few minutes.

Palm control is darn neat and I can see how it could be very addictive.

I think Steve's much more self-contained system is the better choice.

[kcrutcher]

I purchased GRS equipment in approximately 1980.

I had been playing with hammer and die sinker chisels.

The biggest problem was graver sharpening angles (Lots of heel drag).

Did not get much help from GRS.

I became so disgusted I put the tools away, only to pick them up after seeing Steve's Video on YouTube.

My Co2 PC will be here Wednesday and wouldn't you know I have a doctors appointment and will properly miss Fed X.

Thursday for sure I will give you my 2 cents.

Kenneth Crutcher

[SVD]

Steve is definitely a lot more interactive than GRS.

Looking forward to your posts! One thing's for sure: if you have any problems you know you've got help standing by.

[CJ Allan]

Hmmmmm...........
Makes me want a PC on my Artisan.........at least till I can get the Classic PC.....

BUT I very much like this Artisan with foot control..and will be hooking up the CO2 with foot cont. that Steve sent..........

They talked me into doin several shows and demos the rest of this year & next............to promote my class at Rays school
and a stint at the Clinton Presidential Library from Sept 08 till Feb '09...........

Great Tools....
and an even "GREATER GUY"....

Thanks Steve........

[mckeenh]

I have used both GRS and Lindsay tools and there is no comparison. Lindsay is the best. Bar None!j Thanks for the inovation Steve.:yesnod:

Neil

[rbaptiste]

I was working with th airtact in a show and I don't want one same free but if you want give me an another Palmcontrol I don't say no :-)

[JJ Roberts]

I had the opportunity in April to try out the Palm Control. I do a demo for the Blacksmith's Guild of the Potomac every April. My friend Tina at my request brought her Palm Control and a 20oz Co2 tank and I was able to really try the tool out with no interruptions. The beautiful part about Steve's tools is that they are maintenance free...no need for electricity, no circuit boards, fuses, or any unnecessary extra paraphernalia. Thursday morning I sent my Classic off to Steve..he'll get it Monday morning, and I too will be anxiously waiting for FedEx to delivery my Palm Control one day next week. I am thinking seriously about getting another Classic with some bells and whistles.

Keep up the good work.

JJ Roberts
School of Artistic Engraving
Manassas, VA

www.angelfire.com/va2/engraver

[jlseymour]

There's no compairson to the Palm Control...
I tried the airtack at the 2007 Blade show and finding the sweet spot was not so easy...
The Lindsay system feels ooh so good...
Jerry