Hi! Musical instrument engraver here

[jdumars]

Hi all,

Here's my introduction...

I'm 37, living in Nashville, Tennessee, but have spent most of my life in Oregon. I am a life-long music enthusiast who specializes in saxophone. When I was around 15, I saw my very first engraved saxophone in a photo, and it completely blew me away! I couldn't believe how beautiful engraving looked on an instrument, and it totally inspired me. Being the young and intrepid lad I was, I found the first sharp thing I could (and old broken chair leg that had a metal point embedded in it) and started "engraving" my alto sax. I then found my step-dad's electric engraver and tried that with a little better results. I was discouraged enough by the sad appearance that I gave up trying to do it on instruments. Instead, I focused on drawing the patterns, and inventing my own. I became obsessed with this for literally 10 years, drawing patterns all over everything I got my hands on. I also occasionally broke out the electric engraver and tried it out again, with the same poor-quality results.

Everything changed in 1998 when I visited the Elkhart, Indiana home of Selmer instruments and saw a demonstration of hand engraving with the proper tools. It lasted all of 5 minutes, but I remembered every detail of how she held the tool, how it moved, and such. But, I had no idea where one found such tools, nor how one would learn such a thing.

Years passed, and I kept drawing. My drawings became better and better, until I could duplicate virtually any engraving pattern I saw. I found the James Meek book, as well as some other books on the subject and was really excited, but again had no tools.

Finally, I happened upon a set of tools on eBay in 2002! I bought them and immediately began destroying my beloved 1939 Selmer alto with them -- as well as stabbing myself repeatedly in the learning process. I learned the hard way that there's no glove in the world that can stop a graver when it slips. I also learned there's no good way to work on brass instruments in a vise, so you're stuck holding it and working it at the same time.

Once I had the basic "zig zag" or walking stroke with a flat graver down, I tried my hand engraving a baritone sax, and amazingly it turned out relatively good. I quickly damaged the tips on my gravers and had to learn sharpening (picture Charlton Heston shaking his fist at the sky angrily here!), which was... completely maddening. Finally, I discovered E. C. Muller/Lyons and purchased a ton of gravers that I could work on to try and get it right.

Over the next few years, I got the courage up to start working on other people's horns. Unfortunately, I still hadn't gotten my technique right, and frequently impaled my left hand. I also discovered how inconsistent and difficult brass (and especially curved brass surfaces) are to work with. I made some colossal boo-boos on other people's instruments, but got good at working them into the pattern.

Nowadays, I do pretty good with the flat gravers. I have even started into straight push cuts, but have not had the proper tools. One of the things I am hoping to learn through participating here is how to do this the right way, and hopefully make my way into the world of steel engraving.

It's so refreshing to find other people as obsessed with this art as me. It makes me feel a lot less crazy!

Below are some examples of my work. You can also search YouTube for saxophone engraving and see a few videos I made. I welcome feedback, tips, tricks, or whatever. I am just thrilled to be here!

An old project:


My most recent projects:



I am so obsessed with engraving that I even engraved the beach when I was there last:



There are a ton more photos on my website and also on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8770912@N04/

[Rainer]

I guess you found the greatest forum around 8). The INstrument looks magnificent. Does engraving have an influence on the tone?
Rainer

PS:Funny Beach Image... Try a flashlight at dawn!

[rod]

Your engraving is superb, Mr Dumars!

Are you aware of the treatise on the Elkhart makers including many good photos of the engravings and the early workers....written by Dr Margaret Banks at the Vermillion National Museum of Music, SD?

There are some fine examples in the Museum. I spent a week researchng there last October in my speciality area of early woodwinds. You may email me at :

rcameron@mcn.org

and I will pass her email on to you?

best wishes!

Rod Cameron

[john88]

Years ago I did some engraving on musical instruments I used mostly flat gravers and liners. the work I did had to be the right price range because I got my work from dealers and it was always was how much will you charge and the competion was tough there were many engravers at that time and we just almost worked for very little. but every little bit helped in those days
I'm going back to times around the late 1938. , at that time we use to get believe this three cents a letter. ocourse they say bread was only 25 cents at that time. all that is gone now I 'm been retired a good many years now but as an engraver I'm still interested in the trade. I'll be 90 years not to long from now so you will know where i'm coming from. thank you for your display on engraving sincerly John D.

[Roger Bleile]

Originally Posted by john88

I'm going back to times around the late 1938. , at that time we use to get believe this three cents a letter. ocourse they say bread was only 25 cents at that time. all that is gone now I 'm been retired a good many years now but as an engraver I'm still interested in the trade. I'll be 90 years not to long from now... .

John,

Your expierience probably goes back farther than anyone on this forum. Please start a thread telling more about yourself and the way things were done in the 1930's - 1940's. How did you get your start and training and what types of engraving did you do? Also what is your take on the state of the art today.

Thanks,
Roger Bleile

[pilkguns]

yes I would be very intesting to hear more about the enraving practices back then

[john88]

Roger Bleille I remember you from a way back I attended the fega
shows off and on but it was long time ago and then i did start going to the shows some years ago but you had left and went some place. I did buy a book that you publised on the engravers that were in business at that time
it was one of the first books out about the current engravers I thought it was a wonderful first for that time. If i'm remembering right you were very instumental in the original forming of the fega, oe maybe it was you brother, but I definitely remerber it said by roger bleille. I did ask around for your where abouts and heard that you took leave and went into some other occupation, but that was just heresay. I remember the color pictures in that book on some of your fine engraving or firearms and it was very impressive
I've been engraving for good many years sometiimes off and on I learned my trade back in boston as an errand boy first and slowly grew up I trained first as apprentice to a die cutter and it was a big show with about 35 engravers and die cutters In those days you learned how to engrave jewelry and just about anything that was needed, even did some jewelry repairing at times
the competion was tough and we worked long hours for penuts. I bounce around quite a bit thru the years worked in vauioue shops around the east
coast had a time in tifnany's in new york where at that time there were at least 15 engravers. with my training on die work I did mostly coat of arms
on signet rings so that was my special job as i say I did about all types of engraving. thru the years I seen a lot of engravers leave the trade because of panograph machines and alse most all the die work is done on the three dimensional laths and now more with computers design. I'm quite frankly surprised at the number of people taking up engraving ocours some of the reason is the task is much more enhansed with the power driven graver. its real a remarkable machine and that one of Lindsay is just remarkable. I think the only art left that is in style i s the firearms engraver. I would caution a
person that would go in for just jewelry engraver. thats just what I have experienced thru that last 30 years I 've seen the major jewelry work farmed out to the computer jewelry engraver I had known a former jewelry engraver quite and bought some engraving machines and went from there to more advance ones and as far as I can remember he was ahead of the game. I better close for now I'm getting tiire It's been a pleasure to see you back where you will be happy sincerly john d.

[monk]

JOHN, THANKS SO VERY MUCH sharing your history with us. it is always interesting to know the way a person has come up. to think now of 3 cents a letter ! the thought would send most of us into a convulsive state. but then, when you were doing your work then at 3 cents a letter, did you ever dream how the engraving art and profession would grow ? how things would become ? imagine, john, back then- telling your peers you had a vision that one day there would be a machine that could do your lettering, that could do your layout on paper for you . that this machine could do all this while you sat back and had a coffee ! john, they would have said you were nuts !
but thanks to folks like you who acquired a skill passed on to you by those before you, we must thank you. we're sure you have done much to pass the the torch to those who came up behind you. for people like you have made it possible for us to continue this art. thank you !